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This is to free up vertical screen real-estate. Since tabs are already in the sidebar, there's no need to duplicate them at the top! The feature can manifest itself in two ways:
1) Only the address bar stays at the top in "compact mode" with no tabs underneath (note: I realize this is sort of a "hidden feature" already if you turn on the sidebar and then switch to "vertical tabs")
2) Everything disappears, and the address bar compresses itself into the sidebar (similar to Arc)

The user would then be able to use the sidebar exclusively with vertical tabs, rather than having a combination of both.

Here is how it currently looks:

  • Vlad replied to this.

    I say no unless we give people both of the option !

      DinkyDonk yeah of course. People could still have the full top bar, but I think there should at least be an option if people want.

        0xCUBE When you enable vertical tabs, horizontal tabs are hidden already. What is exactly the ask?

            Vlad I mean to completely be able to get rid of the address bar without turning on focus mode

                Merged 5 posts from Allow Sidebar-Only Browsing.
                  Merged 2 posts from Option to hide the toolbar.
                    19 days later

                    I read a couple of posts here about sidebar, url bar, extensions and arc comparisions. What I can summerize as suggestions, and also would be happy with, is below. I am not familiar with the Human Interface Guidelines so I'm sorry if these strech/break some rules.

                    1. Option to hide the toolbar at the top of the page
                      This would allow the desired more vertical space.

                    2. Option for having multiple rows of toolbar on the top of the left sidebar.

                      • Allows to put all the buttons and what not from the top toolbar there if wanted to
                      • Url bar can take up the full row (even though it's small, for an MVP I think it's ok)
                      • If it is easier we can agree on a fixed number like 3 or 4 rows
                      • Strech: allow rows at the bottom as well

                    3. Option to reveal the left sidebar when mouse is dragged to the left side of the window and hide when mouse is moved away.
                      This, I think, will be tricky to get right but the idea is simple.

                      • MVP: the already implemented show and hide can be ok
                      • Later: show and hide over the main view so currently viewed page does not need to be resized

                    4. Option for a right side toolbar.
                      Basically an area where you can drag your toolbar items.

                      • Initially I would specify it as one icon width
                      • Icons are in a single column
                      • Strech: If suggestion 2 is developed I would dream up a right sidebar with multiple rows just like the ones on the top of the left sidebar and make the width of the right sidebar adjustable

                    I just realized these are like 4 feature requests, but they are all centered around the idea to provide the experience of a fullscreenish web page view. Very similar to Focus mode, but with an all you can do easily accessible sidebar. With Suggestions 1-3 I think we can get very close to it.

                    If you want to I can rephrase these features starting from or comparing to Focus mode, but this message is way too long already.

                      6 days later

                      I find this interesting as part of why I use tab tree is for the vertical space and I usually don't care what the URL is at all, but for sure I would want options between a condensed thing and the current UI. Having buttons on the right side would be interesting to more center the page, but not sure I love having quick actions on opposite sides of the screen, especially the wide way. I feel the tab tree wastes some space right now in that I don't need to see like 22 lines of tabs, so having toolbar buttons and extension overflow in the upper third of the tab tree space would be fine. Regardless, having extensions still visible is important as they do provide feedback or interactivity, I don't think anyone is arguing against that but gotta say it.

                        If we are to do this, it would not be an option but the entire toolbar would move firmly into the sidebar. Making it an option would increase maintenance 2x. So no options.

                          8 days later

                          Hey everyone

                          Hey all we want to show our updated design thinking about this feature.

                          What this may look like is

                          Note that there is also a popular request where users want sidebar to allow multiple sections (eg tabs and bookmarks all visible) here

                          What we are talking about is this:

                          Now, when we combine these two asks the result is this

                          and to quote our designer "it looks very overloaded and monstrous".

                          Your feedback about where should we take Orion's sidebar is welcome!

                          Before going into all of my points, I'd like to suggest some sort of a voting system. Reading this thread it looks to me like there is a vocal population of people and there are UI/UX decisions being made to appease that group. I don't see any dissent and I think taking followers/voters on this one issue is not sufficient to gauge if such a huge change with no options should be implemented or not. I'm guessing there could be a population of people who don't want this change and don't even know that it's on the table because they've never searched for it but because there are so many voters on this issue it's being implemented without dissenting feedback.

                          • I'm ambivalent to the specific change in a vacuum but I think for windows of various sizes it may make less sense in some dimensions than others. Like full screen I think everything being on the side is generally fine but if the window was smaller then you lose the ability to see many tabs. With a small toolbar it's probably fine.
                          • Sometimes I squish windows side by side and make the tab sidebar as thin as possible and it's still navigatable which got me wondering how would these components react or would there be a minimum width?
                          • Really not a fan of every tab being its own input, I think there is value in having glancing access to at least the domain.
                          • How do you edit the whole URL if every tab is its own input, or even if it's just at the top? Does the input grow horizontally?
                          • I also feel all 3 together is a monstrosity but more importantly I think that kind of defeats some of the purpose of side view tabs. Like my first point to the extreme where the tabs become hard to sift through if bookmarks/history is left open. I'm assuming we can hide it though so it might be ok for quick open/close
                          • I'm concerned there may be issues with extension UIs as well, like those that make a UI below the button, where does that go?
                          • I do sympathize with wanting to commit fully to using all the vertical space possible but to me having the tabs on the sides and using compact mode for the URL bar is already taking the top area from 80 pixels to 38 pixels
                          • A lot of websites use the top horizontal area for various navigation type purposes as well, I think having browser navigation on top of site navigation works with that a bit.
                          • I'm concerned radical UX changes are being made while side view tabs still has critical bugs like #6721 where restarting a named window results in the tab title/heirarchy being ruined. I know that's marked as planned but I don't know what the timeline is on either of these issues
                          • I really think this should be an option or not happen at all. Forgive my ignorance but how is the option maintaining 2? The current arrangement already exists and will continue to exist for the tabs on top view, to me this change looks like a lot of new work and creating 2 where there is currently 1 so why not have an option?

                          @Vlad thanks for looking into this. This is a very important feature and will set Orion's longterm direction so I can respect that this process will be long and thoughtful.

                          First, I would like to verify if our goal is to move the contents of the (horizontal) top bar to the new (vertical) side bar.

                          Second, you are right, the images you have do seem like a monstrosity because everything is thrown in. Here are my thoughts on simplifying it.

                          1. Do we really need to mix windows and tabs? Why can't the side bar be window specific?
                          2. Is it possible to allow a user to select which lists (bookmarks, reading list, extensions, etc) they want to see in the side bar?
                          3. Can we agree to have a decent width for the side bar to handle the content?
                          4. I know why you have the concept of a "source" but would you consider just showing tabs?
                            5 days later

                            Vlad Please no! While I'm all for adding more functionality to the sidebar I intensely dislike the idea of the toolbar not being an option at all. I would reluctantly go back to Safari or look for an alternate browser were this to happen.

                            I like the sidebar as something I open from time to time. I don't want to be forced to use it. The tiny URL bar seems horribly impractical. Also I often run Orion on a split screen with another app so horizontal space is more precious to me than vertical.

                            I realise this idea has a lot of votes but bear in mind that this site doesn't let us vote against an idea. Do we have to make a "Please don't remove the toolbar" topic or something?

                              Merged 48 posts from Move URL bar to side with vertical tabs.


                                Just like this, but without the toolbar inbetween. This is just a demonstration, but perhaps the bookmarks and vertical tabs can be combined into one super sidebar as another additional option in perhaps the preferences menu. This browser should target both advanced and simple users, even for children 😃

                                  a year later

                                  There is a button in the top left that is present when the sidebar is closed (using vertical tabs), that allows you to switch windows. You can also swich tabs but you have to go through 2 levels of indirection (
                                  see the first image below). It would be really great if there was an option to display and switch tabs directly in the pop up without having to go through the submenus. Something along the lines of the second image.

                                  I understand that I can expand and collapse the sidebar with the button and with a hotkey but there are two aspects of this that make it a pain. The first issue is that I need to close it again. The second is that it changes the viewport which in certain cases can be very disruptive.

                                  All in all, a way to view and switch tabs in 2 clicks when the sidebar is collapsed, would be very appreciated 🙂

                                  • Vlad replied to this.
                                    9 days later

                                    I upvoted, I actually like this concept.

                                      nic The window switcher is actually designed to easilly switch windows. Your proposal makes that harder to do by adding an additional click, and also opening a popup on top of a popup.

                                      It seems to me that even with the new design you still need equal number of clicks to swithc to a tab. (3 in both cases, assuming you switch to a window and then click on the tab you need).

                                      The easiest way to swtich tabs is to do cmd l and search for it in address bar.

                                          Perhaps I didn't quite capture my intention with the mockup. What I'm imaginging is simply adding the list of tabs to the existing window switcher popup. I'm not suggesting the removal of any existing functionality in the current popup, nor am I suggesting an additional popup. I would just like to be able to click on the 15 tabs button, and then select one of my tabs.

                                          • Vlad replied to this.

                                            Now that I think of it, perhaps a dropdown for switching between the sidebar views could be similarly used for the button when the sidebar is collapsed. Its unclear what you to as a label though, as currently there isn't a clear way to differeniate because of the unsaved window names.


                                              nic I am still not getting it, can you do another mockup?

                                              • nic likes this.

                                                Alright so that last kneejerk idea I had should be more understandable with the figma prototype below. Essentially replacing the window switcher button with a popup version of the sidebar. While fleshing it out I realized its probably not a great solution but thought I would include it anyways.
                                                https://www.figma.com/proto/y35YWc4SNA3qh6IjxcVKqf/orion-mockup?node-id=1%3A2&scaling=min-zoom&page-id=0%3A1&starting-point-node-id=1%3A2

                                                The original idea is much more minor. Adding the tabs to the window switcher popup, without removing any existing functionality:

                                                • Vlad replied to this.

                                                  nic My Window switcher looks like this. if we added tabs I have open in this window (which can be 50+ that would be a huge popup). Not sure it is a good idea?

                                                      3 months later

                                                      Brief Summary

                                                      The sidebar can only show Windows, Tabs, Bookmarks or Reading list exclusivly. I think it would be great to have the option to show two of those categories at the same time.

                                                        16 days later

                                                        Hmm, yeah I agree, probably not a good idea.

                                                          9 days later

                                                          At the moment the Sidebar can show vertical tabs OR bookmarks OR your reading list. When you've not got many tabs open this results in a lot of empty space. Please make it possible for us to stack these features vertically in the sidebar instead of being forced to toggle between them.

                                                          The existing selection menu could be changed to allow us to tick multiple items, instead of just one.

                                                          This would make the sidebar much more useful and worth having open for those of us who don't tend to have many tabs open, but like the vertical tabs implementation. It would reduce the number of clicks needed, one of which is on a particularly tiny UI element.

                                                            9 days later

                                                            Completely agree! Would honestly make so much sense. Part of the reason to have a vertical sidebar is to maximise the vertical real estate. If you have a bookmarks bar for instance, that would save even more space.

                                                            (Would also be interesting to see if absolutely everything (including URL bar, extensions and more) is moved to the sidebar to maximize vertical real estate usage. Browser such as Arc have done this, and there is a lot of hype surrounding it. But I know it's not recommended to have multiple issues in the same suggestion so I'll possibly make another one)

                                                              Merged 2 posts from Split Sidebar to show both vertical Tabs and Windows/History.
                                                                Merged 1 post from Show Tabs, Bookmarks and Reading List in the Sidebar at the same time.
                                                                  Vlad changed the title to The window selection button should have the option of showing tabs (also bookarks /reading list?) .
                                                                    Vlad changed the title to Window switcher / sidebar should have the option of showing tabs (also bookmarks /reading list?) .
                                                                      a month later

                                                                      i dont think this is done the featuer hasn't been added yet

                                                                        It appears I was mistaken, I don't think this is done. @Vlad think this should be marked as planned again.

                                                                        Also, a few more things @Fortrikka that might need to be considered to make this easier to implement:

                                                                        • How would you enter/exit this mode (very specifically)? For context, the current way we switch sidebars is this:
                                                                        • Would the bookmarks be directly under Open Tabs (sorta like how Open Tabs is right underneath Pinned Tabs)? Or would it be a vertical split view where the top half is tabs, the bottom half is bookmarks and you can adjust the proportions
                                                                        • How would this apply to the other sidebars (eg. showing both the Windows and Tabs sidebars at the same time)?
                                                                          Merged 5 posts from Bookmark/Vertical tabs option to combine in one sidebar. .

                                                                            This is something that is chronically lacking in Safari. It simply isn't designed for power users who have memorized every single shortcut and are not looking to move their arms to their mouse and want to only hover their fingers entirely over only the keyboard at all times.
                                                                            It's simply impossible to just keep swapping between holding control+super+3/4 and then press the control+super+2 shortcut twice as it painfully shows an animation that slowly reverts between the tab strip and the vertical tabs. It takes a few seconds and typing this also takes multiple seconds.
                                                                            Animations should aid the user. Not slow them down as some stupid gimmick. For example, if you were trying to follow a path and there was an animated display of a fading thing, then it would help you guide your eyes towards the intended target. But on the contrary, if there were such something else such as something that moved very slowly, it would be far more detrimental to your eyes locking on to the target than a gimmicky slow animation, i.e. apple's genie effect minimize shortcut.