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i0mx9kk No, it has nothing to do with the element picker. It doesn't matter how you add the rules. The rules can be included in predefined filter lists, or you can also write the rules manually with the help of browser developer tools, which is what I usually do. Fixing the element picker wont fix the issue of unreliable uBlock Origin blocking, hence it's a completely different issue.

I don't want these two to get mixed up, I already had to elaborate what this issue is about twice. The unreliable blocking issue is a far bigger problem as you encounter it every time you open a new tab. While the element picker can be avoided by manually writing the rules with the help of developer tools, or using the element picker in another browser. It's not something you really need on a daily basis. While unreliable adblocking is something you encounter every time you open a new tab.

      szlend As I already said, the function of element picker is to create a rule that blocks some visual element. Now this function doesn't work properly (it doesn't block your own rules) and this is exactly the issue. I don't understand your point.

          The point is:

          • You derail this thread into making devs focus on the element picker:
            Element blocking still won't work properly. Nobody gets a fully working feature, since there's no point to an element picker if the element blocking doesn't work.
          • You don't derail this thread and devs eventually fix element blocking:
            Element blocking is fixed, and everyone can make full use of the feature by temporarily guiding them to enter rules without the element picker, until that entirely separate issue is fixed.
          20 days later

          Fyi, the new Orion RC supports custom blocking lists for the built-in adblocker. This includes dom selectors like ##img which uBlock Origin struggles with. I haven't tested if it supports every single selector, but at least it works reliably. It doesn't have a way to easily input custom rules yet though, so you have to host the rules somewhere. But that's good enough for me for now.

            Vlad Can you summarize the most important things to look at from this thread as it is getting long?

            uBlock Origin: Issues Summary

            Here are the main issues I've identified:

            1) uBO doesn't initialize correctly on a newly opened tab. Cosmetic filters in uBlock Origin's settings can fail to block elements on page load in a new tab (or after restarting Orion), but work after refreshing the tab:

            • uBlock Origin sometimes fails to block elements on websites when accessed through external links that open in a new tab.
              • uBlock works when the site is accessed in the same tab, but fails when accessed in a new tab through an external link.
              • Links to social media sites like Twitter and YouTube that open in new tabs exhibit this behavior as well.
              • Refreshing the new tab causes uBlock to then block elements as intended.

            2) If uBO was disabled, it sometimes fails to block elements on websites after being re-enabled from the Extensions menu. User must restart Orion.

            3) uBO's control panel from the toolbar doesn't work when I am an advanced user is enabled.

            4) $removeparam rules do not work in uBO (or with Orion's blocker) to remove tracking parameters from URLs in the address bar. Also a known limitation of Safari ad blocking.

            5) General bugs:

            • Sometimes a user cannot navigate to another page. After disabling uBO, problem goes away.
            • Sometimes a user cannot login to certain sites. After disabling uBO, problem goes away.

            6) Element picker functionality doesn't work.

                13 days later

                yokoffing for me at least issue 1 has been fixed in the latest release 0.99.126.1

                update: sorry it gets better but the issue still exists.

                    5 days later

                    I'm still having this issue on Version 0.99.126.1-beta (WebKit 618.1.2)
                    Build date Oct 30 2023
                    MacBook Air (macOS Sonoma 14.0 build 23A344)

                    Exactly as described by @yokoffing

                      7 days later

                      yokoffing

                      Today's new update doesn't fix it unfortunately. Exact same issues persist:

                      Version 0.99.126.2-beta (WebKit 618.1.2)
Build date Nov 10 2023
MacBook Air (macOS Sonoma 14.0 build 23A344)

                      It doesn't bother me too badly, but it is turning people off Orion. I recommended it on a large forum this week and people responded saying uBlock wasn't working on it.

                      When the very first promotional image of the browser shows uBlock Origin working, as one of the leading features of the browser, it's important that this benefit actually be delivered.

                          Weirdly, the firefox version of the extension "Open in IINA" exhibits the same behaviour as problem #1 as described by @yokoffing above. The extension won't function at all, unless the tab is reloaded, and then functions as expected for the lifespan of that tab. I am reporting this here because the two issues seem very simillar and could stem from the same bug.

                          Vlad

                          @Vlad - all of the features listed by @yokoffing when you asked them for a summary of the issues a month ago.

                          I'll paste them again. Orion currently advertises on the back of uBlock Origin working correctly. If this is the case, it should work. This has been a know issue since February of 2022, and the team continues to advertise uBlock Origin as an example of a fully functional extension working in the browser, when that is not true.

                          'uBlock Origin: Issues Summary

                          Here are the main issues identified in the thread:

                          1) uBO doesn't initialize correctly on a newly opened tab. Cosmetic filters in uBlock Origin's settings can fail to block elements on page load in a new tab (or after restarting Orion), but work after refreshing the tab: (Note: this includes the element picker not working, but this is a sub-issue of uBlock Origin not being able to block elements on page load in Orion).

                          • uBlock Origin sometimes fails to block elements on websites when accessed through external links that open in a new tab.

                          • uBlock works when the site is accessed in the same tab, but fails when accessed in a new tab through an external link.

                          • Links to social media sites like Twitter and YouTube that open in new tabs exhibit this behavior as well. Refreshing the new tab causes uBlock to then block elements as intended.

                          2) If uBO was disabled, it sometimes fails to block elements on websites after being re-enabled from the Extensions menu. User must restart Orion.

                          3) uBO's control panel from the toolbar doesn't work when I am an advanced user is enabled.'

                          This thread has been open for more than a year now. This problem has nearly persisted for two years. I don't know how many more summaries of the issues the team needs.

                              Bitwarden extension have some cases in which auto-fill does not work on a new webpage opened (i don't remember if in a new window or tab) and sometimes (not always) the auto-fill feature works reloading the webpage. I thing that there is some strange handler/trigger causing problems to make extensions work properly

                              newtoorion

                              Orion currently advertises on the back of uBlock Origin working correctly

                              That is not the case. We show that uBlock is working, which it does. This is a pretty huge achievement as it does not work on any other WebKit browser in the universe.

                              Does it work perfectly? Obviously not, nor we ever claimed that - but features most people use it for, namely blocking ads and trackers, do work. The browser is also in beta.

                              Now, you can 'demand' all other features work as well but it is not for the lack of will or trying, it is because they are hard. Again, no other company in the world ever got this far running uBO on WebKit as we did. You can acknowledge and respect the effort put into getthing this far or you can keep pushing. It is completely fine to have such high expectation from our team, but alas we are mere mortals, and there are only three developers in the entire Orion team. Also our operation is completey user funded and the revenue still does not pay even for dev salaries. Just to put things into perspective.

                              Also as witnessed by more than 2000 open issues, this is not the only thing people ask us to do. Should we drop everything else, including bugs that prevent people from Using Orion at all, to focus few weeks just on this? For most Orion users, the native content blocker is good enough (and certainly faster because it is native). So it is not as clear we should prioritize this due to huge time investment it would require.

                              I am not asking for anything else, just for patience. We are planning to get to this, as soon as we deal with a few stability issues.

                                  Vlad

                                  @Vlad - I never suggested it doesn't fully work because of lack of will or trying. Nor did I make a demand in my post. You asked me, 6 days ago, which features weren't working for me. Instead of writing it up again, I reposted the list that was curated by another user, listing the different problems with Orion's implementation of uBlock. That's all.

                                  It might be super impressive to have uBlock working in some form on a webkit browser. But when the definition of 'working' is having to reload the page in order to block ads, I think that's where I find the advertising a bit disingenuous.

                                  My point was intended to be, if this is a feature the browser is advertising up-front, maybe the advertising (showing screenshots of uBlock working, without caveats) is a bit misleading. I know this is one of 2000 open issues, but it's the one the company is trying to hook users with. It's what convinced me to download (and persist) with the browser.

                                  Again, not making a demand, just highlighting a mismatch between Kagi/Orion marketing and the user experience I, and others in this thread, have run into.

                                  Still, I'm sorry that my post came off as imperious or high-handed. I'm sure people are working on the issue. I had no idea there were just three devs on the Orion team, and that gives a lot of perspective. Obviously I'd love it if this was fixed tomorrow, as it's an annoyance to have to reload a page to block ads or hide elements, but I'm sure there are other more critical issues you are dealing with.

                                      newtoorion I was not aware that uBO does not block ads unless page is reloaded every time. This is definetely not how it used to work and is new information to me.

                                      Does everyone else experience this?

                                          Vlad

                                          Sorry, I was overly sweeping. Here is the specific behaviour I encounter:

                                          uBlock Origin and Orion's built in content filters pick up most ads. Some slip through the cracks.

                                          uBlock Origin has an in-built element hiding picker, which is used for the ads that slip through the cracks.

                                          This function is broken. In my use case, opening the element hiding picker freezes the web page, and I have to reload. I just tried then, and I had to force quit Orion and reload, as the entire browser locked up.

                                          If I import a user-created rule from another browser where uBo is fully functional - for example, blocking a banner ad on a site like cnbc.com - I have to:

                                          1. Open the page. The ad/element that has been blocked, either via user rule or element hiding picker, will still be displayed.

                                          2. Reload the page. The ad/element that has been blocked will now be blocked correctly.

                                              Ok this is for added elements, not default ad blocking behaviour - yes this is a known issue.

                                                Vlad it also applies to default ad blocking. I just opened reddit.com and I can see ads on the frontpage as well as the annoying cookie banner:

                                                after refreshing the page they're gone:

                                                    catch-22

                                                    Thank you. @Vlad - this is what I was talking about with page refreshes. It's not just elements - I don't think the 'known issue' is as narrow as you believe it is.