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Vlad
Personally I think this looks cool but something seems very off in the 1 tab view. it doesn't feel natural at all instead the UI for 1 tab should look like it currently does:
if you have one tab you really want the url to be in the center. There is no point to have the tab and the url input seperate.

actually the more I look at it the more I realize that this mockup looks best with many tabs open, maybe Orion can do it like safari does for tabs < 5 and then to the mock design you showed when there are many tabs

  • Vlad replied to this.

      TheUser1 The toolbar icons would be jumping from one place to another when you open second tab, and that is bad UX.

        5 days later
        10 days later

        i really like compact tabs on safari, maybe you could make compact view tabs resizable. Even if not please add thi feature. i really like the features and customisability of this browser, more wouldnt hurt. even chrome tabs look better than Safari default tabs. only thing stopping me from switching completely

        9 days later

        ajgraves totally agree. I don’t understand the motivation to separate them. In my opinion, it seems more predicated on “browser tradition” as opposed to understanding the idea behind Apple’s change.

        I think the philosophy is to think of tabs as the containers for web pages they are, and to put the controls directly on each of them. Not only saving space but reducing the unnecessary bloat of having two separate things.

        I mentioned some of this earlier, but I really think this issue is identical to the separation between the search bar and address bar old browsers had. After a while: they realized they could easily be merged.

            Orionic The motivation is to fix the UX, as Safari's implementation has the address bar jumping around which is a big omission and a no-no UX wise.

                Vlad A no-no according to who though? I'm perfectly happy with the way Safari's tabs "jump around", in fact until reading this discussion I hadn't even consciously realised that's what they do. I wasn't aware that that was a complaint people had with the tabs.

                    Louis I'm kinda the same way on this. I like how Safari's tabs feel "contained," as in everything needed for that tab is part of it.

                      Louis In UX you do not want something that has constant use to jump around the UI. Imagine Reply button in this post being in different position every time you want to use it.

                      The address bar does not belong to the tab, it is shared among all tabs and belongs to browser toolbar (because you can have only one address visible in the browser at a time). Rendering it inside each tab is unecessary and in the case of Safari purely in the service of design and not the user experience (it is actually doing a disservice to user experience).

                      Here is an example of a compact tab in Safari:

                      I as a user neither know what page I am browsing nor it is comfortable to use all the additional icons. Just because it looked 'prettier' to someone at Apple does not mean it is better for the user.

                      Address bar is one of the most used UI controls in the browser and keeping it in the same place improves efficency and productiviy of the user.

                      And here is an opinion from a well known voice in the Apple community:
                      https://daringfireball.net/2021/10/the_tragedy_of_safari_15_quote_unquote_tabs

                          Vlad

                          In UX you do not want something that has constant use to jump around the UI.

                          I don't think that's always correct. For example:

                          A tab in safari is not only a static button (like a reply, or tab button in finder) — it's also a search field. Because of this, it's ok to move things around.

                          Just because it looked 'prettier' to someone at Apple does not mean it is better for the user

                          You talking to users now, not to the apple engineers, btw. And as a user — I know what's better for me. I switched back to safari because of the "new look for tabs" feature.

                          And here is an opinion from a well known voice in the Apple community

                          I will return back your quote: Just because it looked 'awful' to some guy from the internet does not mean it is not better for the user

                          There is no correct way to do things in UI/UX, it's always a compromise between user expectations and innovations. In UI/UX your only choice is what expectations to fulfill and what innovation to bring.

                              ctrlok

                              I don't think that's always correct. For example:

                              Both of these prove my point! The search icon is always in the same place so you can develop muscle memory where to find it.

                              There is no correct way to do things in UI/UX

                              Yes there is. You can say design tastes are different which is true, but UX is deterministic.

                                  Vlad And here is an opinion from a well known voice in the Apple community:
                                  https://daringfireball.net/2021/10/the_tragedy_of_safari_15_quote_unquote_tabs

                                  That was a pretty good article and helped me to think about this some more.

                                  One issue I'd like to point out with the compact tabs is that, to change a URL, it requires two clicks (and even in separate areas sometimes, if there are a lot of tabs!) unlike the old ones, where it was merely moving the cursor to the same space at the top, and clicking once. I think there might have been some concessions made to usability in order to achieve the desired aesthetic.

                                  Vlad I as a user neither know what page I am browsing nor it is comfortable to use all the additional icons. Just because it looked 'prettier' to someone at Apple does not mean it is better for the user.

                                  It is true that something having a visually pleasing quality to those at Apple, does not necessarily translate into it being better for users in the end. Sometimes Apple pivots and changes their approach, too.

                                  Also as a general point here – I think there is more to this than personal opinion and objection. The browser needs a certain choice made about what it can offer, so relativizing the question too much doesn't help find the best answer. And the best choice requires some thought about what makes UI and UX better, or worse. More clicks or fewer? How many icons to display? Design preference? Change or tradition?

                                  And so on.

                                        5 days later

                                        Orionic

                                        One issue I'd like to point out with the compact tabs is that, to change a URL, it requires two clicks

                                        Thanks for pointing that out, this uneccesary overhead adds up over time as this is one of the most used functionalites in a browser.

                                            Vlad This is actually nonsense, changing the URL does not take two clicks, it takes one. You simply click on the tab where the address is displayed, and it becomes an editable address field. One click.

                                            Changing the URL on a different tab does indeed take two clicks, but this is a moot point, because changing the URL on a different tab in Orion or any other browser takes two clicks as well (clicking the tab first to switch to it, then clicking in the address bar).

                                                Good point, may have overlooked that.

                                                It’s that the second click takes place in a different location in Orion. But, in the case of Safari compact tabs, it’s that second location is not always the same, though it is probably closer to the first click location.

                                                Edit: In my example, the first click is selecting the desired tab, and the second click is selecting the address bar to change the page of the tab.

                                                  Orionic You are correct, selecting another tab will move where you need to click again to get the editable address field. However, this behavior is exhibited in every other browser as well, with admittedly a slight difference.

                                                  In every other browser, once you select the tab, you need to move your mouse to the address bar for the 2nd click.

                                                  In Safari, when you click the tab, depending on where it was, you may need to move your mouse to perform the 2nd click. However, that movement will be slight in either direction, and may actually not be required, depending on where the tab was to begin with, etc.

                                                  The slight difference I mentioned is, the address bar in every other browser will stay in the same location. So, from that perspective, I get what you mean about "jumping around" etc. However, as someone who has embraced the new way of doing tabs in Safari, I find it not that difficult to get used to. Some of that may be due to the fact that in my common usage, I don't typically switch to another tab to change a URL. If I'm actively browsing around and changing URLs, it's typically done in one tab—the active tab. If I want to hang on to that but browse something else, I open a new tab and go from there. If I go back to another tab, it's to do one of two things: either interact with that content again, or close the tab entirely. Rarely if ever do I switch to a previously opened tab to change the URL of that tab. So that could be why I'm not really "seeing the problem" as described here.

                                                    Would it make sense to give users the preference if the address bar should be separate? A checkbox by the compact tabs setting for example. Too many options can be bad, though.