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joelchinta Thanks for your attempt at summarizing this.

  • Why is there both little arc and peek (can/should this be one popup?)
  • How does user enable this?
  • What is the best use case example for user wanting to see a link in a popup?
  • Orion already supports native popup windows. Would they suffice?

You can do something like this to try to see if this is OK solution

button.onclick = () => {
  window.open('https://twitter.com');
};

Thanks!

      Hi @Vlad , The answers to your questions as follow.

      • The two features can be combined into one popup. They both essentially serve the same purpose.
      • They enable it in the settings. So all external links open in Little Arc and with a custom keyboard shortcut, they can open a Little Arc window in any screen that the mouse is in, even over fullscreen apps.
      • Wanting to see the contents of a link before turning it into an entire tab that gets added to the workflow.
      • Orion's native popup windows do not serve the same function as Little Arc, namely being able to open one in any window where the mouse is (even other full screen apps). I tried the solution you suggested. It doesn't suffice, but can be improved with the above features.
      • Vlad replied to this.

        joelchinta

        Orion's native popup windows do not serve the same function as Little Arc, namely being able to open one in any window where the mouse is (even other full screen apps)

        Does this mean opening links from other apps? Can you show a video of this?

        I tried the solution you suggested. It doesn't suffice, but can be improved with the above features.

        Help me understand what is good and what is lacking. Is the shape and size of the window good?

            @Vlad

            I think Peter does a great job in the video of demonstrating and explaining the two features. Worth for you to have a look as well.

            This is exactly what we're looking for. Does Orion have this ability prebuilt?

            (from 4.04)
            (from 5.09)

              Thank you! I watched these and it seems to suggest:

              • Between Peek and Little Arc, it seems to me you want Peek. Little Arc is not little at all, and looks like a full browser (it is "little" only compared to the rest of Arc, but there is more browser chrome there than entire Orion has by default)
              • Good proxy for Peek would be Orion's native web app window or a focus window. So we could make it even more minimal
              • It seems to me that you'd want the Peek window to open automatically open for a) clicked links that open a new tab in Pinned windows and b) clicked links in external apps
              • There should be a way to dock this mini window to main Orion window
              • Finally I would imagine that not all people would want this behavior. Is there an option in Arc for both these features, and what is the default?

              Does this capture what the ask is?

                8 days later

                Vlad Between Peek and Little Arc, it seems to me you want Peek.

                Yup, I think you're right.

                Vlad Good proxy for Peek would be Orion's native web app window or a focus window.

                I agree

                Vlad It seems to me that you'd want the Peek window to open automatically open for a) clicked links that open a new tab in Pinned windows and b) clicked links in external apps

                Correct

                Vlad There should be a way to dock this mini window to main Orion window

                Yup, a button and a keyboard shortcut Cmd+O

                Vlad Finally I would image that not all people would want this behavior

                Agreed

                Vlad Is there an option in Arc for both these features, and what is the default?

                The default is that Little Arc opens for all external app links, Peek opens for all clicked links in Pinned Tabs, It also acts as an opener for URL Schemes to open directly within an external app instead of opening a browser window (but one would have to agree to open that link in an external app the first time a schema link is clicked.

                The options offered is that we could choose to enable or disable this in the settings.

                • Vlad replied to this.

                              joelchinta

                              The options offered is that we could choose to enable or disable this in the settings.

                              Please name and position these options in current Orion settings.

                                  under Browsing

                                  then whatever you choose to name it, and a check box

                                  One thing i disagree about tho, is that i dont think it should be the deafult for pinned tabs, i dont see the logic in it. i think you should be able to open links this mode by holding down a hot key as we talked about further op.

                                  And then i guess you can argue no option would be needed. but for other apps there should be a setting if they should open in this kinda window

                                  • Vlad replied to this.

                                    Longely Thanks for the input.

                                    We'd like to see concens for the community about naming these options and their default value.

                                    Everyone, please chime in.

                                        a month later

                                        So. it seems like nobody in here was aware of MacOs force touch link preview thing, which is kinda similar.

                                        We could just modify that to be more usefull, unless anyone has any objection (I dont see how they could have tho)

                                        if we did that, heres a list of things that could be changed

                                        1. Add hot key to activate the link preview.
                                          not everybody has touchpads, i think Arc's Shift click is good
                                        2. Remove the edge arrow pointing to the link, since it forces the window to be pretty small in many cases. and replace it with a size that is slight narrower then the background page.

                                        Orion:

                                        Arc
                                        :

                                        1. Make it possible to navigate inside the preview, right now clicking any link will make a new tab

                                        2. Washout background page so it isn't disturbing the preview, like in Arc.
                                          I think its just the page going semi transparent

                                        I think thats the minimal viable changes that would be needed. maybe i missed some

                                        Thanks for the input!

                                        Add hot key to activate the link preview. not everybody has touchpads, i think Arc's Shift click is good

                                        How would this be discoverable by new users as is not a standard macOS gesture?

                                        Remove the edge arrow pointing to the link, since it forces the window to be pretty small in many cases. and replace it with a size that is slight narrower then the background page.

                                        Can you clarify what do you mean by this?

                                        Are previous asks about auto opening external links, handling of links in pinned tabs etc obsolete with this?

                                          Vlad

                                          How would this be discoverable by new users as is not a standard macOS gesture?

                                          In Arc its a setting now, The whole thing that you can open any link now this way is the big game changer to me, which wasnt the case previously.

                                          Arc has a whole menu called Links in Prefferences, I think thats a bit extreme, we could just have it in Browsing as suggested further up

                                          I also think since other Browsers are doing this now, discoverability will come naturally from people looking for this function

                                          Can you clarify what do you mean by this?

                                              Vlad As for the discoverability of shift-clicking a link to preview it, macOS already has a solution which is used pretty often in the menu bar.

                                              Additionally, the preview appears to be a quick look view inside a popover. I don't think you can remove the arrow from a popover, and even if it was possible I don't think Orion should. The popover is a native macOS feature that is used elsewhere in the UI (like force touching a word pulls up the dictionary), and I don't think Orion should deviate from it. As for disabling/blurring the source web page, I think Orion shouldn't implement that. As a "preview", you should be able to open it without rendering your current web page inactive. If you quick look a file in finder, you can still interact with the finder folder.

                                              In summary, the MVP of Orion Link Preview would include:

                                              • WebKit's existing force touch preview
                                              • Alternative activation methods
                                                • Right-clicking, which would show an option to "Open in Preview" along with "Open in New Tab" and other similar functions.
                                                • Shift clicking, which would automatically open the link in preview. Right click -> Open in Preview would have a little shift ⬆️ symbol akin to to menu bar items' shortcuts, to help with shift-clicking's discoverability.
                                              • Acting more like an integrated part of the browser
                                                • Replace "Open with [default browser]" button with "Open in New Tab" and "Open in Current Tab"
                                                • Add a "Copy URL" option
                                                • Show either the web page's title or the full URL instead of just the website domain

                                              I believe this is the best implementation of a macOS native and user friendly peek-like feature.

                                                  Update: It is possible to display just a shift symbol making use of a zero width space for the menu item's key equivalent. Discoverability settled 😃

                                                  Important parts of the source code (swift):

                                                  let openInQuickViewItem = NSMenuItem()
openInQuickViewItem.title = "Open In Link Preview"
openInQuickViewItem.keyEquivalent = "​" // zero width space
openInQuickViewItem.keyEquivalentModifierMask = .shift

                                                  Thanks everyone for feedback.

                                                  Looks like the MVP of the ask would be to add the ability to open quick look with shift, via a setting in the Browsing section and the shift modifier in the menu (nice one!).

                                                  Note that Orion (like Safari) already uses shift + click modifier to add items to the reading list. This is a native feature and is useful to add a number of links quickly to the reading list (I use it on hacker news front page often).

                                                  As per changing the size, shape and controls of the Quick Look window itself I will leave @dino to comment about difficulty/time involment.

                                                    Vlad

                                                    I dont think the MVP is to make Orion open quick look with shift, as quick look is pretty useless in many cases due to it scaling the websites down to fit the small windows, which means in praxis that quick look is very often only a visual preview, that you cant actually read

                                                    Further more you cant navigate inside a quick look, which also makes it not very usable.

                                                    As for Shift + Click, I dont personally use that, but maybe people do? I have suggested Alt + Click previously. and are yet to hear anyone say they actually use the default Safari function of Alt+Click.

                                                        Roger, will wait for @dino to assess changing quick look window size and adding navigation inside it.

                                                        • dino replied to this.

                                                          Vlad The existing Quick Look preview popup is handled by macOS which we can't modify, so instead we can create custom preview popup with all required functionalities.

                                                              a month later

                                                              dino

                                                              You could probably do a sheet overlay similar to Arc's, probably a bit smaller though. Its large enough that the website will look about right, and small enough that it doesn't look like a full navigation.

                                                              Example (from here)

                                                                There are pretty distinct use cases for Arc's Peek vs Little Arc window:

                                                                Peek is for in-context pages that don't take over the primary function of the current browser view. From a UX perspective, this creates object persistence – I know if I click on a link that my browser window is still dedicated to the original URL (Gmail, Slack, whatever I pin, which tells the browser "I want this to stick around"). My original URL is still there, under the link I just clicked.

                                                                Little Arc is for links directed tied to external apps – they don't interrupt the current browser view but its purpose is tied to links from external apps (open from Mail, Reeder, etc.), not links opened from within Orion itself.

                                                                They're different mental modals – very similar, but tied to the originating URL or external app. It doesn't work if you use the same window/view for both as that mixes models and would make things confusing. I know if I click on a link from outside Arc where it will open, and it won't change any of my current browser windows.

                                                                Basically, If Peek is active, I know any links I click won't affect that current window. I know if I click on any links within a pinned tab/saved domain [i.e. mail.google.com] where they will open (in peek) over my current session.

                                                                if Little Arc is present, I know any links I open from external apps won't disrupt my existing browser windows. I know when I click an external link where it will open and I know whatever tabs/windows I have open won't change.

                                                                Ultimately, it comes down to persistence (I know whatever I was doing won't change because I clicked on a link) and predictability (I know where a link will open).