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I understand one of the goals for Orion has to be a distinctive UX of it's own, along with other benefits over other browsers, and Safari in particular…

But personally I'm just not convinced by the Vertical Tabs approach — that's OK, I don't have to use it, except, unfortunately I do if I want the Bookmark Sidebar UI. I find that unfortunate, and somewhat counter to what I'd otherwise understood as Orion's goal of allowing user agency.

Further, I find myself disappointed by Safari's change to Bookmark Sidebar behaviour, linking it so closely to Tab Groups (which I've not started using, and not sure if I want to…?).

Previously in Safari one could show the Bookmarks Sidebar in a new blank window (i.e. alongside the 'top sites' feature), but then have it hidden when following a bookmark, i.e. the entire window contents was replaced with the site content. In Safari 15 they want to force me to have it shown all the time, which I don't want.

I had hoped I could still achieve this UX via Orion, but the current approach of inextricably linking the Bookmarks Sidebar to Vertical Tabs absolutely prevents that possible UX and feels even more restrictive than Safari.

I'll watch how the whole sidebar UX evolves, let along Vertical Tabs, and if see it might eventually become attractive (to me!) to use.

Just my 2c! 😀

  • Vlad replied to this.

    transeunt It is not clear what is the ask.

    Ability to have bookmarks sidebar in a new blank window and have it hidden when following bookmark eisted in Orion, and it seems it is not working anymore - if that is your point iy should be reported to RC thread here https://orionfeedback.org/d/1383-rc-1101/9 (as well as any other regerssions tied to this RC)

        Vlad I think the asking is to allow the usage of vertical tabs separate from the bookmarks sidebar, so what I am assuming is the separation of vertical tabs from the bookmarks sidebar.
        So perhaps a temporary solution would be to add an option for the legacy behavior of the two distinct bookmarks sidebar and vertical tabs which have been shown separately before back?

        • Vlad replied to this.

            Fortrikka We can't have that, just spent two weeks merging the two. Two sidebar situation that we had preiously was against all UX standards.

                Vlad I also did not like the separated bookmarks sidebar and vertical tabs, so this post should be marked as nofix.

                    4 days later

                    I was under the wrong impression I could only show the Bookmarks Sidebar if I had toggled ON Vertical Tabs — I guess mainly because when I have toggled Vertical Tabs ON, the first thing I see is Bookmarks in the Sidebar.

                    That means my tabs aren't immediately visible until I navigate back to that view — of course the first thing the user should see are their Tabs in the new Sidebar.

                    Couple that with the lack of a "Bookmarks Sidebar" item in the View menu, I hadn't worked out it was actually possible, via "Show Bookmarks" in the Bookmarks menu — in previous builds I think that had instead opened a separate Bookmarks window.

                    IMHO the UX would be clearer if there were a Bookmarks Sidebar entry in the View menu, also according with what Safari users may expect (see attached.)

                    • Vlad replied to this.

                      transeunt Toggle vertical tabs should always show vertical tabs, not the bookmarks expanded. If that is not the case can you record a video?

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