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Abstract:

After discovering that great feature of RSS feed detection, I wonder: "great, but what is next now? what can I do?". RSS detection is useful, but only if the user already has their own workflow, via another app/system.
-> What about users who don't have an existing workflow? Why not have a feature that is welcoming to discover.
Maybe, it's not useful for them and they don't see the benefit? They probably don't like the current market solution? or that don't match their needs?

My current workflow:

I tried to use RSS feed tools, such as Feedly or Instapapper, and subscribe via email when it's possible.

  • Feedly is getting a bit too much and restrictive due to the payment version
  • Instappaper is useful on mobile, but it's simply a bookmark / reading list, no RSS feed integration. Today my reading list, is finally my tab bar.
  • Email box, is fine to consume simple news or updates, but to read longer and learn resources, it's quite painful
  • UX perspective, using a third app, requires having an open tab or thinking to open it during the day
    => A lack of connection between the browser that we see and consume content to the RSS feed app. I finally use a bookmark section in a knowledge base manager.

-> Where do user get informed and see their sources of information? (non-exhaustive):

  • Browser -> twitter -> blog website or blogging platform (Substack, Mirror, Paragraph) -> consume content
  • A friend shares an article -> open it in a browser -> consume content 
  • User setup an RSS feed via third app -> open and selects content -> read inside the third app or direct to the content website
    => every flow passed by a browser and Orion UX layout seem to improve this UX 🙂

Impact

  • Everything is managed by Orion, so the user doesn't leave the browser or content page. I see it as adding bookmark or reading list content.
  • Leverage the RSS detection and open new use cases to Orion browser (+ why not combine it with Kagi summarizer)
  • Getting back the RSS feed vibe, in early 2010s.

Today, the content is fragmented into several app, with its own feed, and they don't communicate together.
With this feature, the idea is to empower users, to easily monitor a website/blog and enforce the Orion use case.

I see it as adding an item to a bookmark or a reading list. A CTA like 'Add to RSS feed x'; 'Monitor this website'.

Possible UX via the left side bar:

  • From the search bar RSS icon, when user clicks on it, it displays the option to copy the link (current UX) or to add the link to the RSS Feed in Orion.
  • Integrate the RSS feed with the 'Reading List' section. 
  • Create an RSS feed section, such as Bookmark and Reading list.
        - Have a dedicated toolbar icon 'RSS Feed'

High-level flow

  1. I'm on a website and click on add this site to my RSS Feed
  2. Like Bookmark a website, that opens the Orion popup
       - I'm able to add the website to an existing feed or create a new feed
       - I confirm the action, can edit...
  3. Now, I can consume this feed in the left side bar by opening it and selecting the view "RSS Feed" 
       - The feed is composed of cards that contain the content title, + link to the original blog + short description.

In the future, we can imagine:

  • Enable user to read the content via a reader mode
  • Summarize the content with Kagi tool suits

I'm happy to receive community and team feedback. If the suggestion is pertinent and the team decides to work on it, I'm happy to get involved in the building process <3

    7 days later
    Vlad changed the title to Built in RSS reader .

      Would love to have community chime in, have some mockups etc..

        Vlad stickied the discussion .

          I've been pushing for Kagi to create an RSS reader with the summarize feature, as I've shared on Kagi's feedback forum. However, Orion might be better suited for this, given its offline capabilities.

          Key points:

          1. Implement a basic RSS reader with Kagi summaries in Orion
          2. Make it highly customizable (styling, custom JS, etc.)
          3. Simplify RSS adoption:
          4. Easy feed discovery while browsing
          5. One-click save and view feeds within Orion

          UI mockups are challenging due to numerous design possibilities.

          I'd happily welcome even a barebones RSS reader with Kagi summaries. This approach could make RSS more accessible to non-technical users, streamlining the process of finding, saving, and viewing feeds all within Orion.

          I would still love to see a feature to convert any website into an RSS feed too.

          @dps seems to be suggesting some web technologies based implementation for the RSS reader. However, in my opinion, Orion should continue its approach of developing a native MacOS app with the RSS reader, and use apple's pre-established design decisions instead. That would give a sense of coherence when using the browser.

            I am not the greatest at creating mockups, but here is something basic I cooked up to help the discussion move forward:

              Intro

              I am personally a big fan of RSS, but I am not sure how the effort/reward trade-off would look like for Orion to do something useful and differentiated/enduring in this space.

              I generally have seen 3 user views around RSS:

              1) "I use RSS all the time, I use a third party or self-hosted RSS syncing service, and RSS is part of my regular workflow across multiple devices"

              2) "I can see RSS being useful but am not sure how to do it right, I might dabble now and then"

              3) "RSS, what's that?"

              Frequent RSS Users

              For regular and devoted RSS users (group 1), they will commonly have native apps. There are some fairly good free, open source, and paid options on Apple platforms, like Lire, NetNewsWire, Reeder 5, etc (to name a few, plenty more are available). These offer a range of sync options, including "server-side" platforms that use standard-ish APIs, or "app specific" approaches to syncing via iCloud/CloudKit.

              I am not sure Orion wants to get into this space - there's plenty of apps already out there. Users are willing to pay, but there's many other apps that do iCloud-only sync, and can do the obvious things Orion would be able to offer. Likely Orion would be replicating a lot of what is already there, for minimal gain. Many RSS services are "subscription back-end" (or self-hosted/hostable), but on these ones, feed fetching is done via the server, and read (etc.) status is synced via the back-end.

              There are also new options in this space emerging (Omnivore etc), that approach RSS from the other way around - Omnivore started out life as a "read it later" application, then added support for pulling in RSS feeds into their application.

              Interested dabbling users

              For these users, Orion might be able to offer something - they might like how Orion did RSS if it was differentiated or super easy to use. The question is if Orion can maintain these users, or if they will end up becoming "frequent users", and moving towards something more powerful quickly.

              I started in this category, by playing around with TT-RSS and FreshRSS, before settling on Miniflux. I used various clients, including some on-device only ones, before settling on Reeder 5 and/or Lire, as they both sync to Miniflux. At least for me, while I did play around with many other apps, I ended up rapidly in that "frequent RSS user" camp, where there is a fairly high barrier to producing a useful RSS client app.

              Non-RSS users

              This is probably the biggest opportunity, especially if Orion doesn't frame itself as an "RSS app" per-se, but rather offers features they might find useful. Say a Kagi-style "daily briefing" or similar on their home screen, but based on the sources they are interested in.

              Closing thoughts

              I don't know if it makes sense to try to "be" a full RSS app. People who want full RSS readers likely have something, or have some specific "if it did X then I'd switch", but you would likely need quite good feature completeness. Looking at the Mac App Store, paid RSS apps support quite a range of sync/third party services.

              Reeder 5 = Feedbin, Feedly, Feed Wrangler, FeedHQ, NewsBlur, The Old REader, Inoreader, BazQux Reader, FreshRSS

              Unread = Feedbin, Feedly, Fever, Inoreader, NewsBlur

              ReadKit = BazQux, Feedbin, Feedly, Feed Wrangler, Fever, FreshRSS, Inoreader, Miniflux, NewsBlur, The Old Reader, Tiny Tiny RSS

              Fiery Feeds = Feedly, Feedbin, Fever, NewsBlur, Tiny Tiny RSS, Inoreader, Bazqux, FreshRSS, The Old Reader, Nextcloud News

              Lire = Feedly, Feedbin, FeedHQ, The Old Reader, Inoreader, BazQux, Newsblur, Feed Wrangler, FreshRSS, Miniflux, Nextcloud News, Tiny Tiny RSS.

              (Not on app store) NetNewsWire = Feedbin, Feedly, BazQux, Inoreader, NewsBlur, The Old Reader, FreshRSS

              It strikes me that something powered by RSS, but not trying to be a "full" RSS app, might be a good starting point, rather than trying to build out all these integrations to attract in heavy RSS users.

                I agree, which is why I proposed in the mockup a simple extension of the current bookmarks functionality, which can be implemented as a new sidebar like the reading list one, with the entries being fetched on device and shown as Orion tabs.

                And about what Orion would be able to provide in this space, and it would make it easier for users to get into and use. RSS is a part of web browsing and thus it also makes sense to have it as a feature, instead of it being a completely unrelated gimmick.

                  laptudirm I completely agree with your mockup, exactly how I imagined itˆˆ. Thank you, for your work!

                  For the first version, just use and extend the bookmark functionality:

                  • create a feed on the sidebar
                  • add item into a feed (website to monitor/listen) into a given feed, by copy/paste website link (or RSS Feed icon)
                  • display new entry card - by clicking on the card, which opens the Reader Mode of Orion and lets the user read the entry content

                  In my point of view, it's seeming enough for an MVP to let users give feedback and discover for users who are not familiar with the RSS feed concept.

                  -> The hot point will probably be "how to turn website into RSS feed that doesn't already support it" And OpenRSS can be a source of research about: https://openrss.org/usage

                  For the potential following version, indeed, extend the features around AI with Kagi summaries. Which enable the user to summaries/query the content or custom feed suggestion as suggest @dps, but it's requires a significally resources and work. That is probably not sustainable for a first release.

                      clem I'd venture to guess adding a button for their Universal Summarizer to a current article would not require significant resources.

                      "How to turn website into RSS feed that doesn't already support it" I imagine would require quite a bit more resources. IMO, this feature could wait, though it definitely would be an incredible value add.

                      An RSS Reader within a browser just intuitively makes sense to me, I'm not sure if other's have attempted this before, but I would love to see Orion make it happen, especially since Orion already helps surface RSS feeds

                        A section summarising the latest RSS entries from your feed could also be made available in the Start Page, like the currently available Reading List overview. That would allow the users to get a quick look at any updates without having to make the conscious decision to check their RSS feed. Given how much people use their browsers, little things like this would make Orion an ideal RSS reader app.

                        • dps likes this.
                        6 days later

                        Great stuff, but I think development should focus on fixing stuff for now, since there are many hicups still

                          Vlad unstickied the discussion .
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