Browser syncing Without iCloud (Firefox sync or Orion sync) - via Kagi servers for paid users

nisbet

I understand and respect your reluctance and in fact you're right that it's not a good fit. Building infrastructure for that would go against your zero-telemetry mission.

Thank you for replying!

pantulis

Vlad

To activate syncing Brave shows you a string of human-readable words. I guess they are using some cloud infrastructure (perhaps some blockchain? who knows) to store everything and the string is only a unique, impossible to guess, magic pointer to that cloud storage, it is not storing the info itself. Which was basically your point.

Vlad

pantulis Thanks for clarifying this.

BO

Vlad My use case for using something other than iCloud is that I have 2 machines - one work and one personal. I have to use different Apple logins. Currently, the state of the browser (tabs etc.) are different on both these machines although I badly want to keep them the same including my mobile. It is a bit of pain to keep airdropping links and such but not a good solution. It would be great if there is an alternative mode of syncing using the email used for Orion or like Brave using an opaque random passphrase (any number of machines can join the sync group)

Vlad

BO Understood. I'll refer you to my previous answer for current challenges in doing this.

https://orionfeedback.org/d/2940-bookmark-syncing-without-icloud/2

mchung

Brief Summary
Have other options to sync browsers rather than just using Icloud to sync

Details:
This would significantly improve the overall usability of the Orion browser as other sync options, such as scanning a QR Code (Similar to Brave), would allow the syncing process even better since Icloud could be very buggy for syncing. This would also be useful for future uses, such as integrating Windows, Linux or Android to use the Orion browser.

Vlad

mchung Would you be ready to pay for sync that uses something outside of iCLoud? (As it would cost money to set this up) Brave can do it because it is ad-supported but Orion is only user-funded.

eirk

what other options?

what does syncing by scanning a qr code mean?

how is icloud sync buggy?

mchung

eirk

Brave has an option where you can sync your devices with a QR code or by entering their encrypted code.

Sometimes Orion does not sync with other devices with iCloud on which was the case for me with my iPad

mchung

Hm, i didn't know about the Braves QR code scanning costed money. I guess this suggestion does not work then

Vlad

mchung

i didn't know about the Braves QR code scanning costed money. I guess this suggestion does not work then

All that infrastructure costs money, and in Brave's case advertisers are paying the bill on behalf of Brave users. The question was would you pay for this as an Orion user (as we do not have and will never have ads)

Dustin

I believe @Vlad's point is that the infrastructure for setting up and managing browser data syncing costs time and money. Brave can offer this because they sell ads to fund their development.

@Vlad it occurred to me that another WebKit browser has integrated syncing via Firefox Sync. Epiphany uses it and perhaps this is a suitable alternative to integrate with Orion?

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/epiphany/-/blob/master/lib/sync/README

Not sure if this is the correct spec page but: https://wiki.mozilla.org/CloudServices/Sync

Vlad

Dustin

I believe @Vlad's point is that the infrastructure for setting up and managing browser data syncing costs time and money. Brave can offer this because they sell ads to fund their development.

Correct.

it occurred to me that another WebKit browser has integrated syncing via Firefox Sync.

It can be potentially interesting.

Techcable

Hi! I use Firefox as my primary browser on my Android phone and my Mac laptop.

Switching to Orion on Mac is difficult, because I wouldn't have my history synced with my Android phone.

Would it be possible to sync my bookmarks/history between the two different browsers (Firefox on Android and Onion on Mac)?

Firefox calls this feature Firefox Sync.

I know "Firefox Integration" sounds like a strange feature request, but look at it this way:

Firefox has a huge userbase, most of which is on Android/Windows.
If Orion could sync its history with Firefox, then it would provide incentive to switch on Mac (while keeping Firefox on Windows/Android).

Using two different browsers is difficult. That's why right now I use Firefox as my main browser on Mac.

Right now syncing history/bookmarks is the biggest thing preventing me from switching to Onion. I plan on continuing to use Firefox on Android, and it's very difficult switching back and forth between Firefox and Onion.

Making an extension API could also possibly help with this and allow someone to implement it as a web extension.

Note that Firefox's code for syncing bookmarks & history is open source and well documented, so it shouldn't be too hard to implement: https://github.com/mozilla/gecko-dev/blob/71515d047cbdd02687a1b9b7265f2ffb51300bf1/services/sync/docs/engines.rst

Thanks,
Techcable

Vlad

Not possible as Firefox would not be able to sync from Orion (Keychain)

eirk

wouldn't it be possible if orion just did not sync with iCLoud keychain, and synced directly with firefox? (this does mean that certain things wont be able to sync)

Vlad

eirk If there is an API to use, then it would be possible, the question is of resources