The ability to use 3rd party or some other means to sync bookmarks, settings, etc...other than iCloud. I currently use Safari for personal and Firefox for work. However, Orion would allow me to use a Safari experience (or better) for work, but keeping them totally separate. The only issue is I can't use iCloud. Work uses OneDrive so that's a possible option as container destination.
11
Sync bookmarks separate from iCloud Drive
I have asked for this feature in the past
https://orionfeedback.org/d/104-self-hosted-bookmarks
And I was basically told that since iCloud already offers this functionality adding it to Orion wasn't on the roadmap.
As a privacy focused browser I think the ability to self host your own bookmarks would be a must have feature, but thats just me I guess.
Well that's a bummer cause iCloud isn't an option in my situation....so with no alternative from iCloud I can't cross device sync.
This feels like an area where the "right" (in terms of most user flexibility) approach is via browser extensions. Once there's more extension support, that should be a viable option, as there are extensions that can do syncing bookmarks (and similar) through other platforms.
5 days later
- Edited
Apple's iCloud is the most privacy respecting of all the bookmarks services out there. It is also native on macOS/iOS. If you do not trust iCloud then you should probably not be using macOS/iOS.
It took us 2 months to create sync support via a native service, and would probably take us a year to build a secure bookmarking service from scratch. Even then I would probably trust Apples implementation of it rather than ours.
We could try to do all that or we could try to fix the other 1,800 issues on this site. Sorry to be blunt but it simple as that. We do not have the resources.
10 days later
to clarify it is not "trust" issue. It's a work policy that I have no control over. I understand the work and resources involved. What is effectively an essential component of modern browsers means it is very specific solution.
Maybe down the road? The thought being is treat cloud services as a place to keep an encrypted container similar to Boxcryptor does this for files.
7 days later
- Edited
If you do not trust iCloud then you should probably not be using macOS/iOS.
You don't have to use iCloud to use macOS and you don't need iCloud Drive for iOS. I know because I don't use 'em. Hell you don't even have to trust Apple with your Contacts, Calendar or Reminders, there is Baïkal for that which even runs on a raspberry: https://sabre.io/baikal/
You only need iCloud for iOS apps, which itself is unfortunate.
Apple's iCloud is the most privacy respecting of all the bookmarks services out there.
How can you say that? I'm surprised to say the least. Bookmarks with Apple are not even end-to-end encrypted: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
Read the update here: https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/04/apple-safari-bookmarks-end-to-end-encrypted/
It's mentioned here as well: https://orionfeedback.org/d/2001-e2e-encryption-for-icloud-sync
Even Firefox Sync is better (E2E-encrypted) and the server again, even runs on a raspberry, should one prefer that.
There is also https://www.xbrowsersync.org
So there is no need for you to build from scratch.
- Edited
anonym I was coming from a fact that business model of Firefox/Mozilla is ads (indirectly, with 90% of its revenue coming from Google), while for Apple is not. So from a privacy standpoint Firefox/Mozilla is much more likely to misuse the data than Apple (because we know that companies related to ad-tech are the primary violator of privacy on the web). I am not saying that Mozilla is doing anything bad, but if you ask me whom I would rather store my bookmarks with, in this case I would pick my OS manufacturer (afterall I trust is with so much more than just bookmarks already), rather than a 3rd party that also happens to be ad money supported.
E2E encryption is technically a matter of security, not of respecting privacy.
Regardless, that discussion has nothing to do with Orion because we are constrained with resources, not ideas.
a year later
Vlad I see that support for iCloud E2EE is planned, so I look forward to giving Orion another try when that's ready. I understand why it wouldn't be your top priority.
That said, E2EE is a privacy matter by any technical definition I've ever seen working in information security. Data mining for ad targeting is also a privacy matter, but it isn't the only risk E2EE protects against. Even then, I'd be more concerned about Apple's rapidly growing ad-tech division than Mozilla's actual business model of providing Google antitrust insurance. Also, you've argued that people should trust Orion because they can break out mitmproxy and see for themselves what it's doing; the same goes for Firefox Sync and Apple's operating systems, but not how Apple handles iCloud data.
Again, I'm not trying to change your mind about priorities, just trying to leave the discussion of privacy in a better place.
4 days later
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