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  • Browser syncing Without iCloud (Firefox sync or Orion sync) - via Kagi servers for paid users

  • SuggestionsDesktopNofix

Switching to Orion and have the work mac/personal mac use case. I was hoping there was a way to specify which iCloud account Orion uses for syncing, but guessing from this it's not an option? Thanks much!

    6 days later

    having different options to sync could be a good step forward in directions of orion for other odes (linux windows).
    having the option to sync with different cloud providers could help a lot people who are not allin the apple ecosystem (dropbox, onedrive etc.), the self host option could really be one of the killer feature to me.
    I like a lot the idea of using syncthing, to sync only locally when I'm home

      2 months later

      While we are on the topic of bookmarks, I would love to be able to self host my bookmarks and make them available across devices. All the major browsers support cloud hosted bookmarks but none have self hosted, would really be a key differentiator.

      • Vlad replied to this.

        SR Is there an open source software project and a web standard for bookmarks sync? We'd not want to spend time inventing one only for it not to be supported in other browsers ๐Ÿ™‚

          I don't know if there is a standard or not. My assumption was always that Safari can share with Safari via iCloud, Chrome with Chrome via Google etc...

          I realize that developing a sync protocol from scratch is a big lift But even smaller browsers like Vivaldi have the ability to sync bookmarks with a Vivaldi account. Yes, it will be easy to just adopt an iCloud method and use that but not all good things in life are easy. ๐Ÿ™‚

          All I can ask is that it be considered. It would make Orion unique amount browsers and would serve a segment that doesn't't like paying monthly fees/distrusts big corps. A small segment sure, but the niche is there. Think about it.

          • Vlad replied to this.

            SR iCloud is preferred way to sync among Apple devices, it is fast and secure - and free. Hard to make a case for a custom, self-hosted one, that involves designing a protocol that no other browser will use.

              This is probably an area where the "right" (at least IMO) solution would be a browser pluginv (for the service/protocol of your choosing). There used to be some a few years ago at least. I don't think there's any go-to standard for this, at least not in the "lots of people have adopted it" sense.

              One alternative to bookmarks would be a "read-it later" type service like Wallabag, which you can self-host. That doesn't integrate with bookmarks, but someone who knows the extension APIs better might know if you can use that to add extensions programmatically like this. If you can't add extensions programmatically then a plugin wouldn't help for any kind of bookmark sync anyway.

                I'm always in favor of being able to self-host, since more and more these days I want to take control of my own data. I think a lot of other people feel similarly.

                I do agree with @gp that it should probably be handled by an extension. So long as Orion's extension support allows syncing bookmarks (and other user data as well) then we should be in good shape.

                  6 months later

                  Vlad iCloud is preferred way to sync among Apple devices, it is fast and secure - and free.

                  This is true for Safari but is it true for Orion? Per Apple's documentation only a small subset of information stored in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted. Do Apple's APIs allow you to opt-in to this?

                  Chrome, Safari and Firefox all have E2E sync so I'd expect Orion to have it as well, especially when such a strong focus seems to be privacy.

                    SR

                    "smaller browsers like Vivaldi "

                    Vivaldi has 2.5M users. Probably as much in annual revenues.

                    Orion has 1,500 and no revenue. Just to put into perspective. Yes it is a huge ask at this stage ๐Ÿ™‚

                      a year later

                      Hi Vlad and everyone else,

                      I'm also very interested in this subject, and I understand it's a complex issue, and depending on how it's tackled, it could mean a lot of work.
                      Since this topic speaks about 2 different things, Bookmarks & Self Hosting, I'll separate them for now.

                      Right now, 2 of the most commonly referred-to methods for syncing bookmarks between browsers seem to be 2 extensions, xBrowserSync and floccus.
                      I've tried the Firefox and Chrome stores versions of both, and couldn't make them work on Orion.
                      Of the 2 floccus seems the most interesting and the most mature, giving a lot of choice to the user, and the ability to self-host the Bookmarks.
                      xBrowserSync, on the other hand has E2E and you can either use one of the available public xBrowserSync services or run your own.
                      I don't know what stops both extensions from working in Orion, and how difficult it can be to make it work.

                      One last thing I want to mention is that a lot of people speak about knowing if we can trust a company (like Apple, Mozilla, etc.), and I think the best situations are when trust is not necessary, meaning as much E2E as possible.

                      If I have encrypted files on iCloud Drive, granted Apple knows already a lot of information, like who is putting those files, what clients are used, when, etc. but it is still a great to have encrypted files.

                      I have heard of software like etebase to help with that, but I have no idea how hard it is to implement and to use, just food for thoughts!

                      Best regards,
                      Charlie

                      • Vlad replied to this.

                        CharlieCortial Yeah making one of those cross browser sync extensions work is a nice middle ground, and the first one is already as a bug report on the site, we just couldn't find allocate time yet to look into it with everything else going on and the fact that a browser syncing solution already exists in Orion and is good for most current users (via native iCloud sync).

                          Hey Vlad ,

                          Thank you for your answer :-) , and I think one of those extensions working very well with Orion is closer than one might think!
                          I have good news about that: I tried a few different options and I finally got Floccus to work and to sync with Orion!

                          Before setup : I unticked the iCloud Sync of Orion on macOS & iOS, and deleted the iCloud data from the settings app to start fresh, and kept it unticked for now.

                          Step by step :

                          1. I used another browser (Brave) to create a Floccus sync folder (called Default like the profile) with Nextcloud as the target.
                          2. Since Orion doesn't work when trying to create the connection, instead, I exported the account with the Floccus extension on Brave, and imported it in Orion, which worked.
                          3. The Floccus extension on Orion says it โ€˜doesn't find the folderโ€™ (I suppose the 2 browsers have a different way to manage bookmark folders.
                          4. In the Orion Floccus extension options, one should change the local folder that is used for syncing, and use the root folder in the window.
                          5. That way, I'm not entirely sure if everything works, but the Bookmark Tar of each browser is synced properly, which is great!
                          6. Ticking again the iCloud Sync in macOS then iOS.
                          7. The Bookmarks are Syncing to iOS too :-)

                          Hope those infos and steps might help others to set up that Floccus cross-browser bookmarks syncing!

                          Best regards to everyone,
                          Charlie

                            5 days later

                            CharlieCortial Your trick worked! FYI, I had my Brave floccus set to the root folder already, and I was able to export and import this profile directly in Orion and it synced without issues.

                              6 days later

                              Hi patrixl, I'm very glad I could be of help, and that it worked for you too! ๐Ÿ˜Š
                              Since then, I kept using this setup and it works well, I didn't have any real problem. I just tend to mostly switch between Push and Merge options, depending on the situation, and also switch between Auto and Manual sync.
                              Cheers,
                              Charlie

                              a year later

                              CharlieCortial Is this still working for you? I've tried following these steps but the extensions requests permission to access *://*/*, clicking 'Allow' doesn't seem to do anything as I end up with errors in floccus for "E036: Missing permissions to access the sync server"

                              Extension is set to be always allowed on all websites.

                              Orion, OS, Hardware
                              Orion Version 0.99.127.2-beta (WebKit 619.1.1), macOS Sonoma 14.4.1, M2 Air

                                2 months later

                                bfayers I have the same problem using WebDAV sync, havenโ€™t tried nextcloud bookmarks.
                                To me seems two different problems:
                                1- the extension is somehow blocked from connecting to the server you choose
                                2- the extension is prevented from read/write in the bookmarks folder

                                Another point is that there is no floccus for safari so I hope that all this get solved when the translation layer for extensions and orion itself go out of beta

                                  Merged 16 posts from Self Hosted Bookmarks.