While selecting "Windows" and "Use Vertical Tabs" in the sidebar dropdown menu, there is no way to see other tabs

mazil

Steps to reproduce:
Go to the sidebar icon and click on the little arrow on the right side of the sidebar icon. Select "Windows" and "Use Vertical Tabs" at the same time. Open a few tabs using command-T. There is no way to see opened tabs other than the latest tab.

Expected behavior:
Still showing vertical tabs in the sidebar along with windows.

Orion, OS version; hardware type:
Version 0.99.123.3-beta (WebKit 615.1.16.1)

Image/Video:

Vlad

mazil That is intended, you should switch to "Tabs" to view tabs.

Vlad

mazil

I guess to have a "Windows" option inside the dropdown menu for the sidebar is for those who use "Horizontal tabs" since they can have their side bar dedicated to "Windows".

Correct, I am one such user.

But, for "Vertical tabs" users, it wouldn't make sense to have a dedicated side bar for "Windows" without showing the tabs.

This is what Tabs is for?

Unless you want to see both a list of windows and tabs in the same place, which I think could get very messy.

I have 15 saved windows and 9 devices for example.

Thoughts?

mazil

Vlad

Vlad Unless you want to see both a list of windows and tabs in the same place, which I think could get very messy.

I have 15 saved windows and 9 devices for example.

Yes, I agree that if you have that many saved windows then it would definately be messy if you try to show them (all saved windows and tabs on the current window) at the same time. But, why not just show the current window and you can hide the list in a drop down menue just like what you did in "Tabs"

Vlad This is what Tabs is for?

I think the point is, if you are on "vertical tabs" and you want make your sidebar as either "Windows", "Bookmarks", "Reading list", you can only hide all of your tabs? And if you want to see them again, you will have to set your sidebars to "Tabs" to access them. So i feel like there is a conflict in sidebar functioning as a holder for "Tabs" and sidebar functioning as holder for "Windows", "Bookmarks" and "Reading list". But this conflict is gone while you use "horizontal tabs". I always feel wrong when I can't diretcly access/see my tabs (except for in focus mode ofc). So, can we say that vertical tabs are always worse than horizontal tabs in terms of usability? If the answer is yes, then maybe you could prioritize the accessibility/visibility of the vertical tabs over sidebar functioning as a holder for other things?

Vlad

Adding @Longely who is formulating some thoughts on Window abstraction.

Longely

I agree with Mazil that in general there just something about the current sytem that just isnt very intuative.

Im still thinking about how it can be improved. but i havent finished that thought proccess

mazil

Longely I've been using Arc for a while and the feature I missed the most from Arc was that I could save some tabs in a space by pinning them in a space so that I can work on them later. I was trying to do the same in Orion by putting them in a saved windows but it just feels different and I've also been contemplating on how are the two different exactly. Here are just some rough thoughts: the mental models used by the browsers are different. In Arc, it feels like you are managing files in folders (files <=> tabs, folders <=> spaces), it just feels very easy to store tabs that way. While for Orion and Safari, I feel like it's harder to map the "Saved Windows/Tab Groups" into something more intuitive.

When thinking about what is a better solution I alwasy try to revisit the original problem, what is the problem we are trying to solve here? I guess tabs groups are used for 1) categorize different tasks, 2) save tabs for later?

Vlad

mazil Please do not mix different feature suggestions and bug reports as it will likely end up in none being processed.

mazil

mazil Also, while using Arc, I feel like the boundary between tabs and bookmarks are become less clear. That is probably the effect what I call "managing files in folders". All tabs are in the spaces like files in the folder and bookmarks are just more permanent.

Longely

I deffinitly agree that overall i think Arcs aproach is more intuative. i had been using Orion for while when trying arc, and thought spaces where really good. without realising that Orion actually more or less had the same functionality

mazil

Longely i feel like Arc's approach is a double-edged sword. I've heard some people got tired of managing their spaces and thus siwtched back to their original browsers. But, as for me, I just felt like the browser itself had too much presence and that the UI was not very efficient. The only thing I missed from Arc was that easy tab save feature. 🙂

Vlad

Feel free to post a concrete, simplest possible ask.

mazil

Vlad If you mean for this post, the ask would be: while on "Tabs" and "Use Vertical Tabs" in sidebar, after selecting "Windows", automaticaly switch to "Use Horizontal Tabs". However, this may not be the most ideal way to solve it, and I can't think of a better way for now...

Vlad

mazil I do not think that is what users would expect to happen.

mazil

Vlad Understood. I think you can close this case then.

zerol8on

A little late to this discussion as I'm a new user of Orion, but I also do find it very confusing that there is no indication of where you are in your list of (vertical) tabs.

I'm a designer, so I can't help myself, so my thought was: when you have vertical tabs and sidebar closed, the tab list could be in a sort of tooltip which shows when you are switching tabs via keyboard for example. (think like the command-tab app switching view)

Additionally, perhaps in the case where you have named the window, it could show [window name] | [# tabs] so you have some indication that there are more tabs, with a way to hover over to pop open the tooltip and switch tabs quickly, without opening the sidebar. (I'll leave it to you to figure out whether to have this be part of the existing Window tooltip or a second tooltip, or what.)

Vlad

zerol8on Please open a new feature suggest and explain your idea in detail (mockups help)